Bella Freud Explores the Hidden Layers of Creative Minds

Playing with her renowned last name – one she inherited from her great-grandfather, the father of psychoanalysis, Sigmund – Bella Freud’s new podcast invites guests to lay out their neuroses.

In Fashion Neurosis, Freud interviews influential people, including Rick Owens, Eric Cantona, Kate Moss and Courteney Cox, to open up about the impact fashion has had on their lives and how it enables them to express themselves. Her approach is unique: these conversations take place in a psychoanalysis setting. Laying on a couch, guests communicate with Freud, who sits in a chair opposite the foot of the couch, while they look up towards the ceiling. There, a camera captures their expressions, giving viewers insight into the inner workings of the guests, almost as if seeing inside their minds. 

Although Freud is adamant that her role is not that of a therapist, her ability to hold space and craft questions from genuine curiosity is expertly done. 

What made you want to start the podcast?

I thought a lot about the conversations that people have, especially in these private places where people have this rapid exchange [and] where there’s this sort of speedy download of information. I just love that so much, and I was trying to figure out if there was a way to relay it. So you could capture the charm of it instead of flattening it out, which often happens; it can become sort of one-dimensional. It’s really about the stories, how things came about against the odds, the randomness of things, which is entertaining. 

It’s the context we need to have this real-life version of someone who seems quite often out of reach. In the series you really open up a door into this world of creatives. 

That’s exactly what I’m hoping for. Rick [Ownes] was on my list from the start, and when he said he would do it I just felt ecstatic. I knew something would happen because he’s so incredibly remarkable and I’m genuinely interested. It was just great. A wonderful experience. 

 During your conversation with Eric Cantona, the concept of transgenerational memory through clothing was mentioned. I wondered if you have any special memories of ancestors through the image of their clothing?

There’s something about a suit. Sometimes when I see pictures of my father, or I remember him wearing a grey flannel suit and he’d suddenly have turned into this amazingly perfect person from being so dishevelled. When I first used to go and see him he would be dressed in these rags really. Nowadays that’s kind of normal (laughs), but back then he would change into this grey suit and time would suddenly all come together and there he was in his amazing garb. We used to stand on the street and cabs wouldn’t stop and it was quite funny, because he would be the best tipper. I like that thing of being able to influence people’s opinion of you through what you wear. 

Something I found quite unique about the podcast was the angles that you chose to film from. How did you conceptualise these?

I’d been thinking about that for ages. I thought, I want someone to be able to see into their thoughts and for the person lying there to be able to communicate with me in a more abstract way. But I wasn’t sure how to do it, and when I got together with my camera man, Stephen Pook, I said, “We have to have really flattering light because no one will come on unless the lighting is good. No double chins, nothing.” This is more important than anything, because if people look good then they can relax. By trying to draw people into this world, I showed them that my lighting is fantastic so we can all feel reasonably trusting that I’m not looking to ‘expose’ them. Laying down, automatically you drop a certain amount of guard, so I wanted to make sure everyone looks as good as possible. 

Your genuine curiosity comes through in the series, which is something that a lot of therapists naturally have. Is this something that comes easily to you or did stepping into the psychoanalysis setting bring that forward?

Well I knew I didn’t want to pretend to be a therapist, but I wanted a setup that was a bit playful. Because we’re not sitting opposite each other, it’s a slightly different scenario [and] it meant that we could kind of pause a little bit, instead of immediately answering and wondering what was said. I was incredibly nervous, but then people are so interesting. The biggest thing I’ve learnt is how to listen and to wait before I ask a question, because I used to interrupt. I wanted to answer their question to show how much I understood people, but of course I wasn’t listening. Now I really enjoy listening and I learn a lot more because of it. 

Do you also have your own relationship with psychoanalysis?

I’ve done many years of therapy of many kinds, which I’ve found really helpful. My therapist at the moment is a psychoanalyst, but he’s very open, it’s not rigid. I think I’ve learnt quite a lot about myself. Even though I’m not trying to do this correctly in that way, because I’m not a therapist, it makes me confident in my own desire to do something around this. I thought, well, this is all to be played with, so if I don’t do it someone is going to do it. I enjoy it and I feel like I’m quite good at it. It’s the perfect joining of two things I love. 

Final question, who is your Mastermind?

The person that immediately comes to mind is my best friend Karma Nabulsi, she is Emeritus Fellow in Politics and International Relations at Oxford University. She is the most intelligent and the most rigorous person I’ve ever met. I always worry about getting carried away or over-worry about getting it wrong. But when I check back with her about the things that matter, the barometer is always immaculate. I feel like I’ve learnt an awful lot from her about trying to never become complacent or presumptuous about anything. That means a lot to me.